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 Post subject: Tycho swipes off Adventures Into Digital Comics with tissue
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:01 pm 
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At the same time when you blogged that Blank Page got slashdotted, that Tycho of Penny Arcade takes a swipe at other webtoonists because of the aforementioned documentary about webcomics. First off he started his rant with this:

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.....because now I know who keeps trying to buy weed from me at the San Diego Comic Con:

Image


And then this:
Quote:
In the (Penny Arcade) comic we insinuate ourselves into the documentary, into those marble corridors of artistic legitimacy where we could never find purchase. I wasn't aware that comic creators were still running for their lives with some imagined "The Man" hounding them, hot to crimp their innovative, illegible noble failures lest "the people" catch wind of the revolution. In 2005, I guess I thought we were kind of done with these adolescent tantrums.

Every time I see some book or video purporting to represent "our scene" it's a Goddamn cavalcade of Scott McCloud acolytes singing one Goddamn note. Scott McCloud's great contribution? He championed a bold new high-tech way for artists to be poor. He seems like a good guy, but the man pumps out these starry eyed sycophants who rattle on and on about the Age of Goddamn (Digital Comics) Aquarius. Without the tyrannical constraints of "strips" or "panels," they can now make a comic as vast as their galloping egos. Everyone has always been able to make "challenging" incoherent art that no-one cared about. And now, with the Internet, more people can not care about it than ever.

We're up to our asses in impractical manifestos that don't get anybody anywhere. I can't imagine why we'd need another one.



Finally, his by-product of that rant:
Image

IYO, do you agree with what Tycho is trying to say, DJ?

I'm feeling Tycho have some issues with really pretentious webcomickers (and Scott McCloud for that matter)....

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:39 pm 
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Dude-- that was refreshing to read that actually. I feel like a lone gunman out here when I want to BARF that TCampbell is writing "THE HISTORY OF WEBCOMICS" and it seems like everyone wants to just jump in on that bandwagon.

This Digital Comics video has looked like crap for two years now in it's "production" ---

So yeah-- anyway, I totally agree with Tycho. While I don't always read their strip, it's well done, and I could see myself getting along with those guys pretty well in a conversation or hanging out.

These other guys though-- WHEW... man. SOme of them I'd like to punch in the forehead... or bitch slap.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:49 pm 
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I loved today's PA. I agree that there are way too many people out there who put way too much academic weight on their product. They're not doing anything new. They're still putting words together with images. It's been done in comics, it's been done in video and movies, it's been done. The internet is just a "new," but rapidly aging medium to get your product out to the public.

People who think they're forging their way though new territory are only deluding themselves.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:50 pm 
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djcoffman wrote:
Dude-- that was refreshing to read that actually. I feel like a lone gunman out here when I want to BARF that TCampbell is writing "THE HISTORY OF WEBCOMICS" and it seems like everyone wants to just jump in on that bandwagon.


Unfortunately, I did :oops: I just read THE HISTORY OF WEBCOMICS for the History bit, and not the T Campbell's cheerleading parts. My bad.


Quote:
So yeah-- anyway, I totally agree with Tycho. While I don't always read their strip, it's well done, and I could see myself getting along with those guys pretty well in a conversation or hanging out.


Dude, you should do more than just hangout. Maybe you, Bob, Tycho & Gabe should do some comics together. I can't imagine what kind of spawn all four of you might produce, but it'll be so awesome!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:06 am 
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Well, I don't know those guys. If they approached me to do something with them I'd probably be game. But I'm not going to push for that. They seem awfuly busy.

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 Post subject: Re: Tycho swipes off Adventures Into Digital Comics with tis
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 7:39 am 
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Image

Advent of a new medium?
this guy is the friggin Al Gore of Web comics.
he is writing like he is the first, the Alpha of web comics.
I have been putting incoherent challenging stories in web comic format up since 2000, and even then it was allready being done by alot of other people, and Ignored by the rest.

bah...what ever.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:28 am 
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Have to raise this issue again 'cos Eric Burns have snarked about the documentary. This deserves mention regarding Cat Garza:

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Cat Garza is a good artist. He's one of those rare infinite canvas artists I like and respect, because you can see him honestly trying to push his limits, push the limits of the medium, push something as he works. He really is experimental. He really is trying. You might think it's all bullshit or pretentious or whatever, but he doesn't. He believes it.

And he's not been a success story in webcomics. His output has dropped way down, because he's got bills to pay and a family to feed. He believes, with all his heart, but he doesn't get to play fucking video games for a living. He does this because he loves it, and he believes in it, and in the end it hasn't gone where he wanted, and if you have no empathy for that then you're just a stone cold bastard, whether you believe him or not.

Do you have any idea what Cat Garza must have felt to see that trailer? Do you have any idea what that must have meant to him? He was the centerpiece of a trailer for a movie, talking about a subject that means the world to him. For that one, brief moment it must have all seemed worth it to him. It must have seemed like maybe -- just maybe -- he has had a profound influence on this medium that he loves.



And the about the PA gang's attitude towards Mr Garza:

Quote:
It's like Krahulik and Holkins are so desperate to be cool that they're emulating the jocks in high school. It's like they're abusing the people weaker than they are because they know it'll make the cool kids laugh, and prove they're cool. It's like they're abused children, who get big enough so they can abuse children of their own -- their lunch money got taken away and they felt weird and awkward and weak -- Jesus Christ, look at those freaks. They play video games way too much. They're, like, obsessed! Hey, let's go smack them around! Let's go stuff them into lockers! That'll be funny! -- and now they've got hundreds of thousands of people reading them. They've fucking won. They beat the assholes who used to rag on them once and for all, because those assholes are working fucking retail and Krahulik and Holkins get to play video games for a living. And so now they're taking glee in tormenting this guy who's never done a thing to them and who couldn't do a thing to them if he wanted to. They mock how he looks and what he says and they just generally tear him down at the moment when he probably felt the best about himself and his art as he ever had.

That's not funny. That's not a joke. That's not editorializing and it sure as Hell isn't deflating the pretensions of others. It's. Just. Mean.


I kind of guilty of laughing with PA at Cat Garza and how he's trying to push & promote the webcomics scene. Reading from Eric Burns' assessment of Cat Garza, he worked as hard as his colleagues like you, Tycho, Gabe, & Scott and still didn't get anything. Anywhere. Money, fame, all that. And yet, Mr Garza persists. He still goes on. He may not be an Energizer bunny, but he keeps going, anyway. Or at least, that's what I think of what Eric is saying.

I understand what Tycho tries to say. He knows the potential that webcomics hold. All that freedom that you can do with your comics with no "The Man" to stop you. You trail your own path, your own success, with your webcomics. What Tycho couldn't stand is what he considers "pretentious"; all those passionate, if not intelligent (intelligeable?) words uttered by those who appeared in that documentary, rested on the spines & shoulders of webcomics themselves. Tycho couldn't stand how those words are & will be uttered, perhaps it's in the way how the interviewees will deliver their words.

But, anyway they put it, they still have a point: Webcomics have potential. Webcomics can help indie cartoonists, artistes, auteurs, & creator gain more exposure. And even if webcomics give these very people some misfortune, the least they can get is some infamy.

I may not look forward to watching this documentary, but I am sure to look forward to where webcomics might lead us.....

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:30 am 
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You should see my reply to that Snark there in the comments section. I think it sums it up nicely.

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